编者按：

触碰一个时代，如果能以财富作为切口便不难发现：经济的发展必然带来消费观念的变化，并由此衍生新的审美取向与价值观。邱德光的新装饰主义（Neo-Art Deco）亦从此土壤中诞生并与时代的碰撞中不断演化、发展，迸发而出美学花火。今天，在新富崛起背景下如雨后春笋般涌现的豪宅，无疑见证了新装饰主义美学风潮的盛世再起，它们不仅是中国金字塔层峰的居所代表，更反映了当代东方人的生活态度。当中国等亚洲设计师在迎接挑战，为新生活美学写下新页的背景下，邱德光设计的“新”装饰主义美学引起了Art Deco诞生地——法国《福布斯》的关注。

为还原英文访谈现场，文章采用中英版本回顾

法文版本请点击此图片跳转链接

或于文末的阅读原文获取

China’s homegrown design brands are now heading West. While management consultancy Bain estimates Chinese buyers to account for 32 percent of luxury consumption worldwide, six Chinese brands recently made it to the top-50 of Deloitte’s most powerful global luxury firms. Each of these brands tells the story of a Chinese designer who is reinventing himself to face the current crisis. 

据著名咨询公司贝恩(Bain)统计，中国奢侈品买家已占全球奢侈品消费的32%，而在德勤(Deloitte)最具影响力的全球奢侈品公司排名中，有6家中国品牌进入榜单前50名。这些数据都在表明，中国本土设计品牌已具备世界影响力，邱德光及其事务所就是个中典范。

Forbes France（以下简称FF)

Do you identify yourself as a creator of high-end Design? 

你认为自己是高端设计的创造者吗? 

TK  You may call me a chameleon – literally in Chinese the dragon 龙 that changes 变 colors 色. When it comes to design, I believe one should make more efforts to learn to change, constantly re-interpreting modernization and fashion. It has always been said that a designer is an integrator, using others' differences to form his own. 

As a matter of fact, there is a word “content curator” in the Internet to describe the interpretation in one’s own way. It is a bit hard to translate “curator” into Chinese. My creation is to sort out and integrate information. As information become more and more inflated, talent appears in the person who can pull information together in the most innovative and marketable way. In addition to integrating information, designers can also add their own ideas – and this is where the beauty of interior design resides.

我的设计随时代迭代，所以你可以用“变色龙”这个词语来形容我。“学会改变”是我职业生涯的关键词，我一直努力紧跟变化赋予现代与时尚新的元素与内涵。我常说设计师是一个整合者，对位到互联网市场营销，有一个词content curator（内容策展人），形容梳理信息后再哺育受众。Curator很难对照中文翻译，他的创作是梳理、整合信息，设计师也是。当信息越来越膨胀与拥塞，会处理与整合的人才更有创新力和市场。设计师在整合之外，还需要加入自己的创作，这个身份简直太美妙了——这也是室内设计之美所在。

德光居源于邱德光设计华丽的DNA：华丽携带着精湛的工艺和丰富的情感，其强烈的表现力源于东方精神在现代化生活语境中的重构

图中产品为德光居2.0版本

FF

Within 40 years of designer career, what findings/changes did you notice in Chinese consumers? 

在你40年的设计师生涯中，中国消费者有什么样的变化？

TK  In my career, I would outline four main points when it comes to the analysis of Chinese consumers’ evolution:

·The first major point is the wealth that was accumulated in China. China’s demand for luxury goods has slowed down over the past years; still, it will continue to ramp up rapidly to almost double by 2028 – despite the crisis.

·Second, the level of education of Chinese consumers has significantly improved: for instance, the attitude of 18–24 years old towards China is very different from their parents.

·The third point is about the aesthetic changes in China: the development in China has been so fast that everything is new. On the opposite, today Chinese people are seeking culture and traditions when they consume. Therefore, if a brand wants to succeed in China, it should come with a strong brand history.

·Last, Chinese consumers’ need for home has been expanded. It is not just a living place anymore, but also a lounge for business meeting, a resort to enjoy life, a gallery to represent their collection/art pieces. In a word, a place of infinite possibilities.

在我的设计职业生涯中，关于中国消费者的一些变化可以总结为以下四点：

•首先是中国消费者群体财富积累的大幅度增长。尽管过去几年，中国整体对奢侈品的需求在逐步放缓，然而至2028年，即使在疫情的影响下，这个数字将会反弹并翻倍。

•第二，中国消费者的教育水平有了显著提高:例如，18-24岁的年轻人对消费的态度与他们的父母有很大的不同。即每一笔消费都是对其个人审美、观念、精神需求的一次折射，一种表达。

•第三，中国消费者已拥有了独有的生活及审美态度。在过去几十年中，由于互联网的发展，中西方信息壁垒被打破，触达西方文化的途径十分便利。在这个语境下，越来越多的中国人在消费中开始回溯并拥簇自己的文化标签与传统。因此，如果一个品牌想要在中国取得成功，它需要有历史与文化的沉淀支持。

•最后，中国消费者对于住房需求更加有机多元。它不再单一服务于居住功能本身，而是兼容混杂而多义的功能集群。未来的居所可也是会客厅、度假地、艺廊......满足商务会客、享受生活及收藏艺术以寄托个人审美意趣......总之，它是一个融合多种“可能性”的空间。

2004年，北京Naga上院盛世空前

它的设计理念所要传达的

不仅是一个金字塔

层峰的居住住所，更是一种定位东方

的生活态度

FF

Could you briefly describe your Chinese vision of Design? 

能简单描述一下您的设计理念吗?

TK  'Design is the art of the possible'. To put it simply, I create a 'possible space' based on the will of the client from countless possibilities, and each design is a balanced reunion of both visions.

设计是处理多种“可能性“的平衡之术。简单来说，我根据客户的意愿从无数的可能性中得出唯一确定的“可能空间”，每个设计都是客户愿景与设计师愿景的平衡与统一。

北京Naga上院的起居空间

以巴洛克式穹顶天花板

凸显挑高5.6米的大气格局

FF

What is the Chinese project you are most proud of? 

你最骄傲的设计作品是？

TK  The next project will be the one I am the proudest. If I had to choose one, however, the work you could regard as my first milestone in mainland China is a project named Naga. Another achievement I am also very proud of is being part of the panel of judges for the International Property Awards.

虽然这个回答有点陈词滥调，但我肯定希望下一个设计作品才是自己最引以为傲的。如果要从标志性的意义上做选择，那就不得不提2004年我在中国大陆的第一个里程碑作品——Naga上院。另一项令我感到非常自豪的成就则是成为国际地产奖评委小组的一员。

设计师以整合「空间格局」、「东方点睛」创造了

极致精致的生活图像

更置入中国人的情感归属

让此案体现了那个时代北京新贵的生活样板

FF

How would you define Neo Art Deco? And why are you inspired by it? 

你如何定义新装饰主义？创造它的灵感来源来自于哪里？

TK  The context of the times affords the impetus in the development of design, and the development of everything is pushed forward by the wheel of history. A designer should create his designs according to the changing fashion of the moment, instead of making something out of thin air. I am the founder of Neo Art Deco: this movement takes elements from the past while understanding the present: — it is a progressive style by definition. It is ever-changing and never out of date. 

The building that embodies the best my Neo Art Deco vision is, in my opinion, the Radio City Music Hall in New York. In the 21st century, modern variants of Art Deco, called Neo Art Deco (or Neo-Art Deco), have appeared in some American cities, inspired by the classic Art Deco buildings of the 1920s and 1930s. Examples include the NBC Tower in Chicago, inspired by 30 Rockefeller Plaza in New York City. In many cases, what influences people’s assessment of design is fashion. The power of Neo Art-Deco resides in taking into account the present.

时代背景给予设计发展的动力，任何事物的发展都被历史的车轮向前推进。设计师应该根据当下变动不居的时尚去进行设计，而非毫无根据地进行某种意义的自创。在这种前提下，我创造了新装饰主义---它是不断变化、永不过时的。在我看来，最能体现新装饰主义风格的建筑是纽约无线电城音乐厅。21世纪初，装饰主义的现代变体亦出现在美国的一些城市，譬如芝加哥NBC摩天大楼，灵感来自20世纪20年代、30年代的经典装饰主义建筑（例如洛克菲勒中心）。很多时候，影响人们对建筑或设计评价的是时尚。而新装饰主义的力量在于跨时空混搭，形成属于当下的美学表述。

设计师以放眼国际的都会顶居为目标

揉合东方古典美学、天人合一的居住理念

以及欧洲贵族血统的新巴洛克风格

汇聚东西文化的宽阔气度，打造崭新东方设计风格

FF

Does France influence your work? 

法国是否作为一个灵感来源影响你的设计作品？

TK  Art Déco, is a style of visual arts, architecture and design that first appeared in France just before World War I. It took its name, short for Arts Décoratifs, from the Exposition internationale des arts décoratifs et industriels modernes (International Exhibition of Modern Decorative and Industrial Arts) held in Paris in 1925. Lesser known is the impact of Art Deco, especially in Shanghai. I am thinking for example of the Broadway Mansions in Shanghai. Many Art Deco landmarks in Asia were demolished during the great economic expansion of Asia in the late 20th century, but some notable enclaves of the architecture still remain, particularly in Shanghai.

Another French significant figure is Le Corbusier. No designer could step aside the influence of Le Corbusier. Corbusier’s changing style along with the breakthrough of technology developments may be the place where I resonate the most. Art Deco flourished as one of the first truly international styles with new materials being used for the first time, including chrome plating, stainless steel, and plastic. This innovative and international aspect echoes my way of working and my thinking of a chameleon.

当然，法国是所有设计师的缪斯。对我个人影响最大的装饰主义思潮就诞生于一战后的法国。装饰主义Art Deco以1925年在巴黎举办的艺术国际艺术博览会（Exposition Internationale desArtsDécoratifsetIndustriels Modernes）的名字命名，是ArtsDécoratifs的简称，它是一种视觉艺术、建筑和设计风格。或许很多人不知道，装饰主义的影响也曾冲破地域限制，来到大洋彼岸的上海，百老汇大厦就是个中代表。20世纪后期，亚洲经济大跃进期间，许多装饰主义风格地标被拆除，但在上海的外滩、天津南开区等地仍然可以窥见往日时代的灿影。法国另一个重要人物勒·柯布西耶（Le Corbusier）也是我非常喜欢、崇拜的设计师，可以说，没有设计师可以忽视Le Corbusier的影响力。Le Corbusier的设计语言始终随着材料技术的革新而不断改变，这是我最为钦佩的一点。装饰主义在材料运用上深受Le Corbusier及现代主义的影响，将当时的新材料譬如混凝土、不锈钢和塑料都用在了装饰之中，革新了古典主义的装饰手段，也革新了现代主义机械化的去装饰。这些与时俱进的前瞻思维很大程度上影响着我，我也愿意随着时代的发展，做个”变色龙“。

2020年初，随着最后一件艺术品的入驻，

历经五年创作历程的杭州舒宅终至完美落幕

于此艺术与音乐之家

“观阅”并“发掘”中国新纪元背景下新贵生活方式与审美变迁

FF

One of your latest projects is the Mansion of Art and Music? How do you incarnate Music into a design? 

你最新的一个设计作品是一个以音乐为主题的杭州私人宅邸请问你如何把“音乐”纳入设计当中？

TK  'Music is liquid architecture; architecture is frozen music' and I tried my best to incarnate this sentence into this work.  In the design of this private house in Hangzhou, music is a melting space. The relationship between music and space is not explicit or figurative but it resonates in fragments. If you want to be concrete, you can think that the curve of the ceiling, the rhythm of the stairs, and the position of the artwork belong to music, and all notes sound like an Arpeggio. The entire space is like a symphony.

歌德曾说：“建筑是凝固的音乐，音乐是流动的建筑”，我将这句话贯彻到杭州私宅的设计中，音乐就融化在空间的各个角落。这并不意味着我要用什么具象化的语言来呼应音乐的存在，而是以一种含蓄的方式来做抽象的、精神的共振。具体而言，天花板的曲线、楼梯的形态与艺术品的位置......所有元素、片段如同跳动的音符，当它们遵循一种设计的指挥节奏各司其职，便能谱出一曲完整的交响乐。

因时代演变，当代中国人对于家的想象已从早期财富的“外露”

逐渐内化为更深层次的需求

它不再单一服务于居住功能本身

而是兼容混杂而多义的功能集群

FF

As a renowned designer working with architects and construction workers, how are you reacting to the current crisis? 

作为一名知名设计师，你如何带领公司应对现有的疫情危机？

TK  Crisis 危机 is often cited in the western world of a time of opportunity 机会; However, 机 does not convey any positive meaning by itself. Indeed, you can find this character in the words Airplane 飞机 and elevator 升降机. Regarding the current situation in China, on April 8th the government reopened Wuhan, and on April 30th Beijing’s epidemic prevention and control dropped to level 2, which means we can visit other cities and need no self-isolation when we come back. Even though our response to Covid-19 has been satisfactory, we still wear masks and measure people’s temperature every day even before entering our office premises.

“危机”这个词在西方的语境里，是为造就一个“机会时代”，所谓“有危便有机”，危机与机会并存，然而，“机”一字在中文里的词性是中性的，就像飞“机”跟升降“机”里面也出现了“机”一字，这说明机会也好，危机也罢，在于我们如何把脉时代交付下来的命题，将目前所面对的问题“转危为机”。中国在应对Covid-19迅速的反应取得了立竿见影的成效。在此期间公司采取线上、线下双线工作模式，以100%的战斗力迎接新项目的挑战。2020年4月8日武汉解封，紧接着4月30日北京的防疫级别降为2级，这意味着我们公司的运营回到正轨，差旅往返其他城市亦无须再居家隔离。但即便如此，我们也没有放松警惕，我们的同事每天仍会戴着口罩上班，并在进入办公室前测量体温，齐心抗疫。

在邱德光设计的传统里，空间和艺术本就存在着相生的关系

音乐是艺术形态的一种，雕塑与绘画亦如是，而空间亦能成为雕塑本身

FF

What do you think consumers will desire the most after the crisis? 

疫情过后，消费者对于居住环境的需求会有怎样的变化？

TK  After the crisis, of course, the real estate firms as well as individuals will appreciate healthy and eco-friendly designs more. Thus, we may change our floor plan or use more sustainable materials to meet their needs. If a designer wants to find new clients, I would tell him that the best ambassador of one’s brand is his own design.

由于疫情影响，长居家中成为日常，以生活设计为核心理念的我们更觉任重道远。待疫情过后，住房数量向居住质量的转变与房地产消费升级是未来趋势，其中，房地产公司和个人业主一定会更加倾向于健康环保的设计，重视绿色生活文化。有顾及此，我们将会通过开发新的产品及使用可持续性环保材料来满足他们的需求。

音乐主题贯穿整个宅邸，并在听音房奏响其“高潮”
空间是凝固的音乐，音乐即融化的空间

FF

To conclude, what can European designers learn from China? 

你认为欧洲的设计师可以向中国借鉴、学习什么？

TK  China differs from Europe in many practical ways including regulation, economic development stage and cycle. Though those differences are strongly embedded, there is room for mutual inspiration.  In my opinion, the most distinctive feature of Chinese culture is its inclusiveness. In design, it means that art, object and people with different backgrounds are allowed to blend in a unified order.The notion of emptiness—closely associated with Taoism—holds a crucial place in Chinese art and this is a dimension that could also be more developed in China than in the Western world.   Last, the concept of nature in harmony with nature. 

The French word for harmony (coming from the old Greek for “union”) can be translated into Chinese in various ways: 和谐/ 融洽/大同 /和声/协和/时 雍. Here are some possible meanings found in Chinese: conceptual harmony和谐, relational harmony 融洽 harmony of a perfect society 大同, Musical harmony 和声, Harmony through coordination 协和 Harmony of the moment 时 雍, harmony through balance均衡 etc… Though the word harmony is paradoxically not harmoniously translated, I really believe that we can find a universal bridge between our two cultures.

中国在意识形态、经济制度、宏观政策等诸多方面都与欧洲截然不同，然而恰恰是这些差异给予我们相互借鉴同被启发的空间。我认为中国文化中最具特点的是其包容性，它强调一种制衡。在设计中，这意味着不同背景的艺术、物件和人能够融合在统一的秩序下，产生跨越时空的对话。道家讲求“虚静之性”和佛家容纳各种色法的“虚空”，都是一种包容和平衡，容许万物的丰富之美全然绽放。这些价值观在中国远比西方更有发展的土壤。另外还有“天人合一”的自然观，即人与自然要和谐相处。“和”也是中国的思维观。

笔者注：将受访者所言翻译为“harmony”，法语中，其词源来自union，在中文语境下，“和”意味着和谐/ 融洽/大同 /和声/协和/时 雍不一而足。“和谐”是“和”之本意；“融洽”是一种人际关系之“和”；“大同”指社会关系之“和”；音乐的和谐是为“和声”，良好 的合作是为“协和”；与时代相和谐是为“时雍”；通过平衡达到和谐是为“均衡”。将“和”直接翻译为“和谐”是一种并不完善、也不和谐的译法，但此词着力于构筑一种东西方文化融合共生的状态。

采访 Forbes France 记者：Philippe BRANCHE

翻译、校对：Romona、Karen、Susanna