2022年10月11日，是中华人民共和国与德意志联邦共和国建交50周年纪念日。作为一家成立于德国汉堡的建筑师事务所，gmp在中国也已经走过了20多个春秋。

本期采访人——玛德琳·唯斯（Magdalene Weiss）是gmp合伙人、上海“白玉兰纪念奖”获得者。她在上海已经居住了近20年，年少时即对中国产生了浓厚的兴趣，高中历史毕业课题以中国为主题，喜欢中国人含蓄的幽默感。

October 11, 2022, marks the 50th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between the People's Republic of China and the Federal Republic of Germany. gmp, an architecture firm founded in Hamburg, Germany, has been present in China for more than 20 years.

On the occasion of the 50th anniversary of diplomatic relations between China and Germany, we interviewed architects from gmp, who mediate between the two cultures while living and working in both China and Germany.

Magdalene Weiss, partner at gmp and winner of the Shanghai Magnolia Award 2020, has lived in Shanghai for nearly 20 years. With keen interest in the country from a young age, she took China as the subject of her history research project when graduating from high school. She has always appreciated the subtle humor of Chinese people.

Below you can find our interview with her.

唯斯女士与作者在采访中 © Jacqueline Materok

在里弄里居住是一种什么样的体验？

What is it like to live in the Lilong (residential lane)?

I lived in the Lilong since I came to Shanghai in 2004 and until last year, as I always liked old houses. For me, the Lilong represents a closed community relationship. One "li" is equivalent to 500 meters, which is the distance that can be perceived by the naked eye, and people can easily adapt to the environment within this distance. Therefore, "li" represents both distance and inclusion.

I lived in a residential lane with a diverse neighborhood. There could be expats like me who live in old houses out of nostalgia, or old local people. My downstairs neighbors, an old Shanghai couple, always had their door open, and we greeted each other every morning.

The kitchen was a common space shared by all neighbors. The neighbors were always very direct and asked questions about my age and income. I dodged the question about the income, but gave away my age, which often led to another series of interesting conversations.

去年，我从里弄里搬了出来，因为房东想自己住进去，否则我是不会离开那里的。在上海的城市建设过程中，很多里弄被拆除了。里弄一方面是一种浪漫主义的寄托，可另一方面，其居住条件难以满足现代居住标准。这是一个很难协调的冲突。

Last year, I moved out of the Lilong because the landlord wanted to move in, otherwise I would still live there. In the process of urban construction in Shanghai, many Lilongs were demolished. On the one hand, the Lilong is a romantic place to preserve, but on the other hand, it is unlikely to meet the modern residential standards. This is a conflict that is difficult to resolve.

Fortunately, the Lilong I lived in for 15 years is now a listed building and can be preserved.

建筑遗产保护的东西视角

East-West Perspective on Architectural Heritage Conservation

建筑遗产保护的确是中国当下一个被密切关注的课题。曾经，迫于经济发展的需求，上海老城区的建筑被大片拆迁、消失在新的高层建筑的阴影里。

可喜的是，面对老城区、老建筑的消失，思维方式在中国已经发生了改变。简单粗暴的拆除不再流行，更多考虑的是建筑遗产的保护和更新。

对此，我发现东方和西方在建筑遗产保护上有着不同的视角和途径。在西方，主要以维护历史建筑、保护原有历史用材为主。在中国，还有日本，则讲求用古老的建造方法和技术对历史建筑进行更新甚至重建。在这里，更新意味着维护、保护。

Architectural heritage conservation is a highly regarded topic in China today. In the past, for economic growth, buildings in Shanghai's old city were demolished and disappeared in the shadow of new high-rise buildings.

Fortunately, the disappearance of the old urban areas and buildings has led to a shift of mindset in China. Unthoughtful demolition is no longer the common solution, and more attention is being paid to the conservation and renewal of architectural heritage.

In this regard, I found that East and West have different perspectives and approaches to the conservation of architectural heritage. In the West, the main focus is on maintaining historical buildings and conserving authentic historical materials. In China, as well as in Japan, more efforts are made to renew or even rebuild the historical buildings with ancient construction methods and technologies. Here, preservation of historical buildings rather means maintenance through renewal.

In China, replacing an old building with a new one looking alike and with the old technics is considered as “historical” in the sense of preserving the image and the knowledge of the old building methods. In the West, this would be considered as a “copy” with a negative connotation, while in China reaching a good “copy” of a masterpiece is already a quality.

海美

学院效果图 © Willmore

Another new trend in the renewal of architectural heritage: with the abandonment of old industrial buildings in the 1980s and 1990s, the refurbishment of these buildings becomes aninteresting task for architects.

多文化对团队的影响

整体的、刻板的文化差异仍然存在。但具体到个人时，并不能把个体按照刻板的文化差异归类。我们就经常说，某位中国同事比德国人还德国人。多元化的思维方式在一个国际事务所很常见。正因为我们对彼此感兴趣，才走到了一起。团队里常住中国的欧洲人之所以选择长期居住在这里，正是因为他们有着开放的心态，对这里发生的一切感兴趣，喜欢尝试新鲜事物。

The general, stereotypical cultural differences still exist. However, an individual cannot be classified by stereotypical cultural differences. We often say that a Chinese colleague is more German than a German colleague. Diversified thinking is common in an international firm. It is our interest in each other that brings us together. In our team, we have open-minded European co-workers who choose to live in China for years, because they are interested in what’s happening here, and they always keep trying new things.

唯斯女士与业主在工地 © Victor Marvillet

Admittedly, Chinese culture has also had an impact on my way of thinking. Although many of our projects are international, I still need to learn and understand the clients’ concerns. Especially for office headquarters, cultural buildings, and urban planning projects, I have to respond to the needs of the local people and the clients. You can always see the influence of culture on our way of work.

中国文化中的抽象性

我个人觉得这是可以理解的，并且是一种很好的表达方式。中国文化深受汉字影响，中国人更习惯于将具体的方案浓缩在概念、图像或符号中。还有中国传统的水墨画，用笔简洁，讲求一笔一画的完美性，并且使用大量留白。这完全是另外一种思维方式，是一种高度抽象、浓缩的思维方式，区别于西方的各种艺术流派，比如写实主义。

这种借助图像符号的表达方式和建筑设计本身并不冲突。建筑也是一种艺术形式，讲求艺术抽象性。建筑设计师需要具备抽象能力，将一座建筑造成一朵花的形状，不是我们要做的。

Chinese clients prefer conveying architectural design concepts through pictorial symbols, but not in a straight and concrete way. It is more of a tool to develop a powerful conceptual design.

Personally, I think this is understandable and a good way of expression. Chinese culture is strongly influenced by Chinese characters, and Chinese people are more accustomed to concentrating specific programs into concepts, images, or symbols. Traditional Chinese ink paintings, with very simple lines strive for the perfection of each stroke, leaving large blank spaces. This is a highly abstract and concentrated way of thinking, which is totally different from various western art schools, such as realism.

This kind of expression based on pictorial symbols does not contradict the architectural design, as architecture is also an art form and pursues artistic abstraction. Architects need to have the ability to abstract, and creating a building in the shape of a flower is not what we want to do.

常州文化广场 © Schran Images

最喜欢的gmp个人作品

gmp的设计以理性主义出发，结构秩序清晰可辨，不受时代的局限。我们使用简洁、优雅的设计语言，并为此付出很多努力，使其看上去简洁却不能被简单地加以复制。

我个人设计的gmp作品中，我最喜欢的是上海东方体育中心。这是我在中国的第一个大型项目，并且是在很短的时间内完成的。这个建筑别具特色，既有柔和的、流线型的外观形态，同时又有清晰的结构秩序，很受上海市民的喜爱。

在建设时，体育馆周围还是很多绿地。而如今，这里已经生成新的城市社区。随着时间的流逝，我们可以看到一个体育场馆在保持自己的可识别性的同时，是怎么“生长”到城市中去的。

My favorite gmp design is the Shanghai Oriental Sports Center. This is the first large project I designed in China, and it was completed under a very tight schedule. The building is distinctive and combines a soft and flowing form with clear structural order and is now very popular among the locals.

When the Sports Center was under construction, there was still a lot of green space around the stadium. Today, new urban communities have emerged. As time goes by, we can observe how a sports center "grows" into the urban environment, but still stays outstanding and recognizable.

20

1年的上海东方体育中心（SOSC）© Marcus Bredt

2021年的上海东方体育中心（SOSC）© CreatAR

I have been living in Shanghai for nearly 20 years, since 2004. Life in this international metropolis is very comfortable. With all the project and life experience from Shanghai, I will eventually return to Germany, to my roots. I am quite comfortable with travelling between Hamburg and Shanghai, the two sister cities, and often observe the development of China and Germany from an outside perspective. That is the way I like to live.